I have a smalls claims suit against Equifax. I recently received a copy of their answer to my summons. I believe that I read on Christine's site that the CRAs lie in court. Not that I doubted her, but it was so surprising to read Equifax's answer where they denied every allegation and then blantantly lied! I will not go into the details here, but I hope to catch them in court in the middle of their two lies. Of course, it all depends on how the judge sides with them.

I do have a question or two. One of Equifax answers was that they only have to follow reasonable procedures for accuracy when they are providing a credit report for a third party. This seems ludicrous to me.

Second, what can I expect at the mediation? I do not want to say too much because I do not want to tip my cards.

Thanks!

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As you read at BayHouse, I was quite upset when I got the bureaus' answers, both TU and Experian.

Thing is, there is absolutely NOTHING illegal about their lies. According to all I learned, lies and insults are to be expected in the defendant's Answer - that's how courts work.

Somewhere I posted that this is why consumers also are entitled to lie when they defend their credit rating. Seems logical to me - why should consumers have to be truthful only because they're not talking to a judge?

"One of Equifax answers was that they only have to follow reasonable procedures for accuracy when they are providing a credit report for a third party."

Well, you want to show that they did NOT follow reasonable procedures. What's reasonable?

That's the million dollar question.

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Forgot about mediation - it's supposed to be confidential and nothing you say can be used against you.

I also can tell you that you WANT them to know everything you got. Chances of you getting a cash judgment and actually collecting are slim.

You want to give them everything you got and hope they'll settle. Like bullforever, is he on his trip around the world yet? :)

Did you read about ttowns/jordanmorganusa and her judgments? She said she could prove damages and all, and she got between $250 and $350 or so per case - and those were FDCPA with statutory $1,000! She should have taken the $800 one of them had offered to settle.

Sadly, those are the largest small claims judgments I know of - except for my own, when Cal was still liberal. My 2K small claims judgment was overturned on appeal to $500.

Try to settle BEFORE they incur travel expenses, although the bureaus have so much money, they really don't care. REAL court like Whyspers is a much better choice.

And you may get extra $$$ for removing published materials. I got a settlement for several thousand dollars without having to file or sending out a single complaint, just for removing the publication.

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Does anyone know what the "reasonable procedures" consist of?

Has anyone requested from the CRA's their procedure when receiving an initial inquiry for a credit report from a Collection Agency? (What does the Collection Agency have to provide to the CRA to obtain a copy of a report?).

Who are you alleging got a copy of your report?

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In order to get reports one has to sign up with the bureaus or one of their resellers, complete an appliation describing the purpose of the inquiries and the type of business.

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Let me guess, these "applications" are purged each month like everything else, or is there a chance to request the CRA's to provide copies?

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You have to look at this a bit differently. They weren't "lying" in their Answer...they were just expressing their viewpoint. Their point of view is that they used reasonable procedures and did nothing wrong. Its really a question for a jury as to whether or not they followed reasonable procedures.

I argued back and forth with EX's attorney that the facts of the case did warrant punitive damages. He was just as vocal that they did not. My parting comment was that a jury just sent a strong message on what was and was not reasonalbe procedure (Thomas v. TransUnion) and regardless, it was a question for a jury to decide...not him and I.

Back to the point...there is no need to get upset over an answer. The majority are template and only a few of the facts switched around to match the complaint. While it might be personal from your viewpoint, its not personal to the CRA's or the attorneys involved. Its just another case.

L

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In response to Trixie:

"Let me guess, these "applications" are purged each month like everything else, or is there a chance to request the CRA's to provide copies?"

My guess is that you'll need a subpoena to get those applications. I'm sure they are NOT purged.

And to Whyspers: In my case I wasn't talking about what reasonable procedures are, but their statements in the answers. Clearly lies.

My definition of a lie: It's not true and you know it.

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Okay, there are a couple of different threads here and I will try to remain with my original one since I am most familiar with that one.

Christine, thanks, I will indeed tell Equifax what I have on them during the mediation.

Whyspers, Equifax is not merely expressing their perpective, they are outright lying. In their answer, they said that they did certain things that they absolutely did not do. I read on another board how CRAs will say in court that they sent things and the judge will give them the benefit of the doubt. Well, to circumvent this, I paid my neighbor's teenage son (made sure he was 19) to collect my mail each day and write a log of any mail received from the CRAs. I only saw the mail after he retrieved it. I will have this "witness" with me in court to testify that he did not retrieve any mail from Equifax from the time of my dispute letter until the day that I filed suit.

Also, Equifax did not use a template in their answer. They denied each of the points in my written deposition. It was funny that they claimed no knowledge of my exhibits. These exhibits were court cases and I provided the complete Lexus citation. All they had to do was go look it up.

They did counter that the FCRA allows $1000 per case, not per violation. Have to prepare an answer for this.

Their comment about having to insure accuracy after a person has pulled your file is simply silly and illogical. I will search for legal precedence against their argument.

Finally, they argued that I did not provide proof that the information that I sent them was correct. No, there is nothing that I could provide them that would convince them of the items correctness. That is why I provided them with a business contact familair with the information so that they could confirm the information themselves.

My goal is to not argue with Equifax at all. For each of my points, I want to present a case that supports it and then leave it to the judge to decide.

I wish that I could have the case moved up to Federal Court because I think that I would have more leverage there

Edited by Msng on 09/21/02 11:43 PM (server time).

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Unless you can appeal the small claims decision (state law) I would make it very clear to Equifax that I intend to dismiss the case and refile in federal court - if you have a good case.

You have to realize that just because you didn't receive something, it doesn't mean that it wasn't mailed. Entire sacks of mail are dumped by tired postal workers in the woods ....

And it IS very important that CREDITORS saw your credit, and not only that they saw it, but that you were declined. If you can't show CASH damages, you're case is probably going to be dismissed in small claims or you get $200 bucks or so like some other people recently.

In federal court actual damages include mental anguish, and you can get punitive damages, especially when you ask for a jury trial.

Since you're paying your neighbor's son to get your mail, I think you can show that this has really impacted on your life. And, you do have at least those damages.

So many people ask me about lawyers and suing, I just spent several hours writing up what I learned at http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus/messages/20/400.html

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Okay...gotcha. They are lying...big difference in what I was saying.

As for an answer to the $1,000 per case....I used the following (although this is a FDCPA case, you might can get an idea from it):

§§ 1692k(a), a prevailing Plaintiff may recover actual damages. Also, a prevailing Plaintiff may recover such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000 and the costs of the action. However, because a court can adjust the size of each individual damages award to avoid injustice and limitation by incident might permit wrongful behavior to go unpunished when one single incident includes a number of particularly egregious violations, the limit in 15 U.S.C. §§ 1692g(a)(2)(A) applies to each violation. The number of incidents, however, is relevant to the amount of the damages to be levied.

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"§§ 1692k(a), a prevailing Plaintiff may recover actual damages. Also, a prevailing Plaintiff may recover such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000 and the costs of the action. However, because a court can adjust the size of each individual damages award to avoid injustice and limitation by incident might permit wrongful behavior to go unpunished when one single incident includes a number of particularly egregious violations, the limit in 15 U.S.C. §§ 1692g(a)(2)(A) applies to each violation. The number of incidents, however, is relevant to the amount of the damages to be levied."

Is that case law?

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Looks good to me.

Go to http://www.kentlaw.edu/7circuit/1998/jan/97-1383.html

and http://www.edcombs.com/cm/Opinions/opinions58.asp

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http://www.kentlaw.edu/7circuit/1998/jan/97-1383.html

"....awarded actual damages to plaintiff Stacie Kobs in
the amount of $1500. The jury did not award
plaintiff Ron Kobs actual damages. After trial the
court awarded statutory damages to plaintiff Ron
Kobs in the amount of $100 pursuant to sec. 1692k
(a)(2)(A) and no statutory damages to plaintiff
Stacie Kobs."

I can NOT believe this ... after what these people went through. No wonder Arrow has nothing but contempt for the FDCPA.

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Due to the Jury issue, this case was Reversed and Remanded with directions of a Jury Trial. I have not been able to find out what the final outcome was from the jury trial.

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It would be interesting to know the final outcome. But I think it's shocking that that jury verdict was so low.

Also, since you're doing so much research, I'm VERY interested in awards for attorneys fees. If you happen to see something, please let me know.

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Speaking of appeals...Christine...are you going to appeal the award for attorney fees?


L

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No, too hard to deal with AZ rules - and I only had 10 days for the appeal, I only get my mail every 10 days or so .....

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